BlizzardBomb
Aug 27, 09:49 AM
Well for one thing, Apple doesn't pay street prices. iMacs will only have 2 cores until Kentsfield. So I think it's fair to expct aggressive Conroe speed in the iMac due to the 2 core limitation. iMacs need to be about the same speed as Mac Pros because they only have 2 cores.
All pricing of chips are quoted in bulks of 1000s. And does it matter whether its street pricing or not because Apple still has to fork out an extra 30% for the CPU (+ logic board redesign costs).
All pricing of chips are quoted in bulks of 1000s. And does it matter whether its street pricing or not because Apple still has to fork out an extra 30% for the CPU (+ logic board redesign costs).
shawnce
Jul 27, 03:57 PM
Still, they are the successors to conroe and woodcrest. As long as they are socket compatible, they're the next generation for these machines, whether you consider them a new chip or not.
They will not replace the dual core version, they will exist as an additional product offering.
They will not replace the dual core version, they will exist as an additional product offering.
Mattie Num Nums
Mar 31, 02:38 PM
I've been wanting to say this for a very long time. Google's OS has no advantage over iOS. You could even say it has a disadvantage. Having to create a vanilla code base that needs to function on multiple pieces of hardware is complex, more complexity creates weaker system.
But here's my point. The ONLY ONLY reason why Android market share is anywhere near what it is today is because of the Buy One Get One options at most phone retailers. iOS has NEVER done that and hopefully never will. If you didn't care about the phone or service but needed two "Newer Smart Phones" one for you and one for your wife, why not go with the "Blah Blah" model from Verizon where if I buy one today I get the second for free (two year agreement and activation fees required).
Market share means nothing. This platform is doomed unless Google reins it in and get control over it. If they do, providers will be less willing to work with them, if they don't, by by Android.
My Two Cents.
-LanPhantom
You could say the same thing about Apple though. The Apple fad will go away and the extremely closed ecosystem which seems to not be really developing much in terms of UI or having an actual roadmap could end iOS.
I don't understand why people can't just see the pros and cons of both and accept both are great platforms. Its always a WAR with Apple fans. Apple against EVERYONE!
But here's my point. The ONLY ONLY reason why Android market share is anywhere near what it is today is because of the Buy One Get One options at most phone retailers. iOS has NEVER done that and hopefully never will. If you didn't care about the phone or service but needed two "Newer Smart Phones" one for you and one for your wife, why not go with the "Blah Blah" model from Verizon where if I buy one today I get the second for free (two year agreement and activation fees required).
Market share means nothing. This platform is doomed unless Google reins it in and get control over it. If they do, providers will be less willing to work with them, if they don't, by by Android.
My Two Cents.
-LanPhantom
You could say the same thing about Apple though. The Apple fad will go away and the extremely closed ecosystem which seems to not be really developing much in terms of UI or having an actual roadmap could end iOS.
I don't understand why people can't just see the pros and cons of both and accept both are great platforms. Its always a WAR with Apple fans. Apple against EVERYONE!
reallynotnick
Jul 20, 08:23 AM
Anyone else think this is getting out of hand? Two cores, great improvement. Four cores, ehh it's faster but Joe can't tell. Eight cores, now thats just stupid.
Let me guess it will only come with 512mb of Ram :p (ok it will be at least a GB).
Let me guess it will only come with 512mb of Ram :p (ok it will be at least a GB).
Tones2
Apr 11, 01:26 PM
You guys know the average Joe don't go shopping for a new smart phone every other month?
This is a big deal to some of you guys only because you obsess over this topic almost daily.
Tell that to the million people who bought an iPad 2 about a year after the iPad 1 release.
Tony
This is a big deal to some of you guys only because you obsess over this topic almost daily.
Tell that to the million people who bought an iPad 2 about a year after the iPad 1 release.
Tony
bigandy
Nov 29, 08:27 AM
Universal can want all they want.
Steve ain't giving up $10 to $16 million a quarter to some music bully.
My thoughts exactly. Apple would laugh this out of the building.
Steve ain't giving up $10 to $16 million a quarter to some music bully.
My thoughts exactly. Apple would laugh this out of the building.
FriarNurgle
Apr 27, 08:17 AM
for all the tin foil hatters out there, what will happen to the phone performance when the location services are turned off?
tyroja00
Sep 19, 10:37 AM
If you're still using the PPC, then you won't notice the difference between 2.0 and 2.16 on Intel. It will simply be "faster." Go out, get yourself a nice new MacBook, and enjoy.
I don't know if all the super hard-core Apple "fanatics" are listening or not to us Apple "users". We don't care about the clock speed of the laptop with concern to the Merom. We care about the 64-Bit. It may not be faster now, but wait till late next year, when 64-Bit native programs are out.
This is not just a bump in speed...this is a bump in Platform bigger than G4 vs G5.
It was Apple who chose to enter the Intel/PC realm. It was Apple who promised to be one of the first to utilize Merom chips. It was Apple who started the taunting of their competitors.
I don't know if all the super hard-core Apple "fanatics" are listening or not to us Apple "users". We don't care about the clock speed of the laptop with concern to the Merom. We care about the 64-Bit. It may not be faster now, but wait till late next year, when 64-Bit native programs are out.
This is not just a bump in speed...this is a bump in Platform bigger than G4 vs G5.
It was Apple who chose to enter the Intel/PC realm. It was Apple who promised to be one of the first to utilize Merom chips. It was Apple who started the taunting of their competitors.
obeygiant
Mar 17, 12:28 PM
Being against a specific military action doesn't make one a military dove.
I see you included lots of "lots" but no "links". I'm sorry, but mere rhetoric only goes so far in this forum. If there are so many instances that prove your point, why haven't you actually produced them?
If you need links for the items the 5p listed, you weren't paying attention during the campaign.
Hypocrisy is an occupational hazard for all presidents, since the tough-minded realities of governing trump the foolish consistencies of the campaign trail.
I see you included lots of "lots" but no "links". I'm sorry, but mere rhetoric only goes so far in this forum. If there are so many instances that prove your point, why haven't you actually produced them?
If you need links for the items the 5p listed, you weren't paying attention during the campaign.
Hypocrisy is an occupational hazard for all presidents, since the tough-minded realities of governing trump the foolish consistencies of the campaign trail.
MattyMac
Aug 11, 11:09 AM
Yes Yes Yes
gnasher729
Aug 26, 06:09 PM
I believe the 2.33 GHz Merom chip debuted at the same price as the 2.16 GHz Yonah when it was released. The prices of MBPs certainly haven't fallen. Apple has just been enjoying the extra profits from Intel's price drops of the past few months.
At that time, Apple upgraded all MacBook Pros to the next faster chip without changing prices.
At that time, Apple upgraded all MacBook Pros to the next faster chip without changing prices.
MacSA
Aug 7, 05:32 PM
As a recent switcher to Mac, I have had a lot of experience with M$'s System Restore function. It is NOT a "go back and find that data I deleted" application. It IS a "can we please go back to a time when this computer wasn't totally ********* up" application.
I know, I cant believe people are comparing it to the sytem restore on Windows... sys restore on my PC is total bollocks and never solved any problem I had.
I know, I cant believe people are comparing it to the sytem restore on Windows... sys restore on my PC is total bollocks and never solved any problem I had.
Chip NoVaMac
Apr 7, 11:48 PM
You might want to look at Best Buy's pricing again.
All iPads, iPods and Macs are sold $.99 (at minimum) above Apple.
Time Capsule 1TB $334.99 at Best Buy, $299.00 at Apple
2TB $499.99, $499.00 at Apple
Airport Extreme - $189.99 at Best Buy $179.00 at Apple
Express, $109.99 at Best Buy, $99.00 at Apple
The small accessories are just as bad. And Apple isn't the only brand they mark over MSRP too. I wouldn't be surprised is Bose products were too.
Noticed this as well on some items I have looked at BB.... they seem to be counting on the uneducated consumer of late. Working retail, I hate it when folks whip out their cellphones to do a barcode search (at least at the shop I work at we are competitive most of the time) - but at BB I do it all the time now... no reason to pay more than the retail price for something to make shareholders happy....
All iPads, iPods and Macs are sold $.99 (at minimum) above Apple.
Time Capsule 1TB $334.99 at Best Buy, $299.00 at Apple
2TB $499.99, $499.00 at Apple
Airport Extreme - $189.99 at Best Buy $179.00 at Apple
Express, $109.99 at Best Buy, $99.00 at Apple
The small accessories are just as bad. And Apple isn't the only brand they mark over MSRP too. I wouldn't be surprised is Bose products were too.
Noticed this as well on some items I have looked at BB.... they seem to be counting on the uneducated consumer of late. Working retail, I hate it when folks whip out their cellphones to do a barcode search (at least at the shop I work at we are competitive most of the time) - but at BB I do it all the time now... no reason to pay more than the retail price for something to make shareholders happy....
Silentwave
Jul 15, 05:55 PM
Too many people are complaining about rumored information that isn't even reliable, and most likely incorrect.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
yg17
Apr 27, 11:45 AM
Just think of it like this, how hard would it be to fraud this? NObama's administration could whip one up in an hour the most.
While I personally don't doubt NObama is born in Hawaii, I doubt this will matter for one bit.
Who is NOBama? I looked up that name on Wikipedia but haven't found anything.
While I personally don't doubt NObama is born in Hawaii, I doubt this will matter for one bit.
Who is NOBama? I looked up that name on Wikipedia but haven't found anything.
OSXconvert
Aug 17, 03:32 PM
It will be exactly 25% faster in UB photoshop. How do I know? I tested in photoshop 7.01 in OS X and in XP on the mac pro. XP test was 25% faster. There you go.
Macenforcer, that's a good estimate based on PS7, but we have no idea how much Adobe will optimize the code in CS3.
The thing that makes the Mac vs PC battle so interesting now is that the hardware is essentially the same. So the differences will come down to the hardware drivers and the software and OS optimizations. Though I'd love to see Adobe preferentially optimize the UB code for CS3, I doubt they will financially risk it being much better than Windows. As much as I love the OSX interface better than Windows, I suspect that the deeper pockets of Microsoft will be able to ensure that Vista and CS3 remain neck and neck competitive if not superior in pure performance to Leopard and CS3. Before, when Apple had Motorola's and IBM's chips, things like vector processing speed shone on the Mac, but now the playing field is totally level.
Though it was a smart move to increase marketshare when Apple switched to Intel, it may actually hurt the high-end pro market because all pro machines will be running on the best Intel processors. Choosing, say AMD, over Intel might have been a wiser choice: Apple would have gotten PC compatibility with the possibility of increased performance or Mac customization which would have made the pro machines really scream compared to Windows.
From now on, whatever processor Apple has, Windows has, and the differences will come down mostly on the OS. I do have to tip my hat to Apple for developing BootCamp, because now we as Apple users get the best of both worlds.
Macenforcer, that's a good estimate based on PS7, but we have no idea how much Adobe will optimize the code in CS3.
The thing that makes the Mac vs PC battle so interesting now is that the hardware is essentially the same. So the differences will come down to the hardware drivers and the software and OS optimizations. Though I'd love to see Adobe preferentially optimize the UB code for CS3, I doubt they will financially risk it being much better than Windows. As much as I love the OSX interface better than Windows, I suspect that the deeper pockets of Microsoft will be able to ensure that Vista and CS3 remain neck and neck competitive if not superior in pure performance to Leopard and CS3. Before, when Apple had Motorola's and IBM's chips, things like vector processing speed shone on the Mac, but now the playing field is totally level.
Though it was a smart move to increase marketshare when Apple switched to Intel, it may actually hurt the high-end pro market because all pro machines will be running on the best Intel processors. Choosing, say AMD, over Intel might have been a wiser choice: Apple would have gotten PC compatibility with the possibility of increased performance or Mac customization which would have made the pro machines really scream compared to Windows.
From now on, whatever processor Apple has, Windows has, and the differences will come down mostly on the OS. I do have to tip my hat to Apple for developing BootCamp, because now we as Apple users get the best of both worlds.
Mikey7c8
Mar 31, 08:47 PM
John Gruber's take:
So here?s the Android bait-and-switch laid bare. Android was ?open? only until it became popular and handset makers dependent upon it. Now that Google has the handset makers by the balls, Android is no longer open and Google starts asserting control.
Andy Rubin, Vic Gundotra, Eric Schmidt: shameless, lying hypocrites, all of them.Can't say I disagree.
I completely disagree.
Going open sounded like a great idea in the beginning. Fast forward to today, and manufacturers have used the openness against the platform by creating custom versions of android that aren't readily upgradable.
This has hurt the platform more than 'being open' helped it and google is right to start regulating what can and cannot be done.
I think we're all pretty lucky to have experienced both sides of the spectrum to be honest :)
So here?s the Android bait-and-switch laid bare. Android was ?open? only until it became popular and handset makers dependent upon it. Now that Google has the handset makers by the balls, Android is no longer open and Google starts asserting control.
Andy Rubin, Vic Gundotra, Eric Schmidt: shameless, lying hypocrites, all of them.Can't say I disagree.
I completely disagree.
Going open sounded like a great idea in the beginning. Fast forward to today, and manufacturers have used the openness against the platform by creating custom versions of android that aren't readily upgradable.
This has hurt the platform more than 'being open' helped it and google is right to start regulating what can and cannot be done.
I think we're all pretty lucky to have experienced both sides of the spectrum to be honest :)
Cooknn
Aug 16, 10:43 PM
I still love my PowerPC Mac. I'm gonna shed a tear some day when I retire it. This thing is rock solid and fast (enough) :cool:
11thIndian
Apr 9, 08:24 PM
Glad you realize it was wrong to put those words in my mouth "lots of professionals I know".
Uh, no. I do think that's what you meant. That's just not what you said.
Just because lots of people you know, plus a couple of people on these forums say that they've switched, you can't generalize that into a broad statement that covers everyone everywhere. It might be a localized trend in your area. Just like I can't say that just because none of my clients has switched platforms, that there's NO migration off FCP to AVID or Premier.
Uh, no. I do think that's what you meant. That's just not what you said.
Just because lots of people you know, plus a couple of people on these forums say that they've switched, you can't generalize that into a broad statement that covers everyone everywhere. It might be a localized trend in your area. Just like I can't say that just because none of my clients has switched platforms, that there's NO migration off FCP to AVID or Premier.
ergle2
Sep 13, 07:19 PM
Obviously, since Intel is no longer creating new processors with HT.
By the way, previous poster, HT does not double the number of cores. Just the number of virtual cores. A Pentium 4 system with HT will run slower than a dual Pentium 4 system (with HT disabled) at the same clock speed.
Actually, many tasks were faster.
HyperThreading was thrown in to mask other deficiencies in the NetBurst arch by exploiting resources that were otherwise wasted.
There were a few cases where HT ran slower when HT first debuted, but with OS scheduler tweaks and BIOS updates (microcode changes, likely), HT was a net win in most cases.
Core 2 doesn't have the same design issues - mostly down to that excessively long pipeline - that Prescott had, and hence HT makes no sense.
The problem, however, lay with Netburst as a whole, rather than HT -- which offered a minor improvement in performance - a band-aid if you will.
By the way, previous poster, HT does not double the number of cores. Just the number of virtual cores. A Pentium 4 system with HT will run slower than a dual Pentium 4 system (with HT disabled) at the same clock speed.
Actually, many tasks were faster.
HyperThreading was thrown in to mask other deficiencies in the NetBurst arch by exploiting resources that were otherwise wasted.
There were a few cases where HT ran slower when HT first debuted, but with OS scheduler tweaks and BIOS updates (microcode changes, likely), HT was a net win in most cases.
Core 2 doesn't have the same design issues - mostly down to that excessively long pipeline - that Prescott had, and hence HT makes no sense.
The problem, however, lay with Netburst as a whole, rather than HT -- which offered a minor improvement in performance - a band-aid if you will.
shartypants
Apr 25, 02:05 PM
Those two people just want their "15 minutes of fame", be interesting to see how this plays out.
*LTD*
Apr 6, 07:51 AM
Impossible.
Apple's no longer supposed to care about their Pro software.
This will never happen.
Apple's no longer supposed to care about their Pro software.
This will never happen.
greenstork
Jul 31, 12:01 PM
Multimedia, Snowy and Grokgod,
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
That's an accommodating manager that you found. The lesson learned here I suppose, and it's been said time and time again, is never buy a new computer before a major Mac conference (Macworld SF & Paris, and WWDC).
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
That's an accommodating manager that you found. The lesson learned here I suppose, and it's been said time and time again, is never buy a new computer before a major Mac conference (Macworld SF & Paris, and WWDC).
grum
Sep 19, 09:26 AM
All you people who keep whining about "But I want 64 bit!!!" need to step back and think about what possible benefit a 64-bit system will give you. Those of you who need to address more than 4 gigs of RAM are excused. The rest of you, tell me WHY you need 64-bit computing.
When they go Merom I want the MBP's and MB's to have useful, practical features. More ports, user-removable hard drive, better battery life, better video card, stuff like that. I'm waiting just as impatiently as everyone else, but the hype needs to be toned way down.
why does anyone need to justify to you why they want 64-bit computing?
When they go Merom I want the MBP's and MB's to have useful, practical features. More ports, user-removable hard drive, better battery life, better video card, stuff like that. I'm waiting just as impatiently as everyone else, but the hype needs to be toned way down.
why does anyone need to justify to you why they want 64-bit computing?
